As the Mod team just had the extraordinarily unpleasant task of removing a story by a popular and talented author, we thought it might be a good time to revisit a few fundamentals of Elysian Fields and the material we host.
Firstly, we are a Spuffy site. We always have been and always will be. As such, a Spuffy pairing must be prominent throughout the duration of the story, as is stipulated in our site rules. This means that Spuffy can’t just happen in a story at some point but must be prominently featured throughout the duration of the story. This can and has been done in a variety of ways, as many talented authors have demonstrated over the years.
Now, we do allow temporary /Other pairings and will continue to do so. Sometimes, it is essential in telling a Spuffy story, and we certainly don’t want to stifle anyone’s creativity. However, these pairings must be, by definition, temporary, and respect the Spuffy prominence rule. This had led to some confusion about the sort of material that is EF-appropriate, and we have been approached by authors who were uncertain if their fics were appropriate for the site. Particularly, fics that include or end in Spuffy, but in which Spuffy are side characters or fics that contain prominent explorations of other relationships. In these instances, we have decided that Spuffy endgame by itself does not meet the prominence guidelines and have told authors that we cannot host them on Elysian Fields. Whether a fic meets our guidelines is something we consider on a case-by-case basis, as no two stories, authors, or writing styles are alike. The Mod team is responsible for deciding what does and does not qualify.
This is not to say that you won’t find fics on our site that don’t strictly adhere to these guidelines. We’ve been around fifteen years and have, over the course of that time, experienced a varying degree of moderation from the active mod team. This has led to the inclusion of material that was not originally intended for Elysian Fields. For instance, when Elysian Fields was founded, stories containing threesomes were not permitted, as the space was intended solely for Spuffy material. Threesome fics became allowed due to lack of oversight and a lack of awareness by a new mod who hadn’t been apprised of the original rule. This is an occurrence the current Mod team does not wish to repeat, as it can subtly reshape the original framework of the archive. (Don’t worry—we’re not taking away threesome fics, though Spuffy must remain the focus and emotional heart of such stories).
Today, and for the last several years, moderation decisions are discussed among all moderators so that no one person is running the show. This has become essential as the archive has grown, particularly over the pandemic years. As we continue to grow, though, the Mod team is determined that the original intent of the archive be honored, which means saying no to certain fics, including those that are heavy /Other. We know many of our members have varying tastes (and that’s great!), but there are other places, most notably AO3, for these stories. Crucially, we must also remain fair to the authors who have asked us about similar works and been told that EF isn’t the right platform.
We also understand that it is difficult to gauge the suitability of a story that is in progress and can only issue our decisions based on the information we have. We are happy to reevaluate stories once they are complete to determine if they meet EF’s requirements. In no instance will (or has) an author’s work be removed without warning or explanation.
If you have questions about the applicability of material for the archive, please reach out the Mod team.
--The Mods on March 02, 2022 05:36am 42 Comments
12 hours of notice, during the overnight hours, is not an actual warning. That's slapping on the appearance of a warning without offering an actual, functional warning. The actual deletion may or may not have been a fair adherence to policy. I'm not going to try to argue about that vague and subjective issue. But the abrupt deletion without fair warning to the author was underhanded and MEAN.
It's appalling to hear anyone received hateful messages, over this or anything. I'm truly sorry to learn that. That is definitely not in the spirit of this conversation, this site, or (ideally) this fandom.
I would just reiterate untouchable's and my earlier question, for whenever the mods have time/space to continue to deal with this situation and its fallout. I know I would benefit from clearer guidelines around this rule, since now I'm second guessing dozens of stories I've read here in addition to the one I'm currently writing. I love having a Spuffy-only space in which to read and write, but I also appreciate room within that broad parameter to explore and play.
Thank you for giving us the space to communicate about this.
I second Othellia's comments and respectfully request that you retrieve the comments for Dusty. I spent a lot of time writing some of those comments, and I am displeased to see them disappear into the ether.
Secondly I do not see that the story broke the rules. Buffy and Spike interacted in every chapter, were always in one another's thoughts, never ceased to be jealous of the other's significant other, and were about to have a whole chapter where they were taking on bad guys together. This compared to another story that is still on the site that had pretty much the same plot line, but in which Buffy and Spike were in different countries for most of the time. In that story Spike was so happy with the other female that the commenters started to bash Buffy and wish she wound up alone.
If that one can stay up, why not this? I believe the decision was completely arbitrary and unfair.
I agree very heavily with MaggieLaFey's point about the comments. It would break my heart to wake up one morning and find my current WIP wiped and the comments all gone. Us authors really, really treasure those, especially for those of us who are discovery writers and use the kind words of readers as modivation. If that 12 hour warning was sent while she was sleeping for the night and then she had a full day of work the next day, that leaves her no time whatsoever to save her things before it was gone. The fact that Dusty was given so little notice is, in my opinion, wrong and I would still think it was wrong even if I agreed the story doesn't belong here.
I'm sorry that there were and probably continue to be harassing messages--that is despicable, unacceptable behaviour from those engaging in it, and they should be ashamed of themselves. You ladies do an incredible amount of work to keep this place running and this is basically the only Buffy space I feel comfortable in because of your tireless efforts.
However I also think, if possible, Dusty's comments and story should be retrieved so she can save them. And I agree that the window of warning time should be expanded to minimize any further heartache in the future.
I haven't been online much today, so I was very surprised at how much has transpired since my last log in.
One thing I would like to say is that EF is very much a community, and as a community, there will be disagreements. There will be times when users will not always agree with the decisions the mods make or with each other. However, we should all be operating with respect. No matter how upset we are, we should keep respect in the forefront of our minds. That is paramount in keeping a community thriving. Writing the mods "hate mail," is unacceptable. There are ways to communicate your displeasure about a decision without being disrespectful.
With that being said, respect is a two way street. I don't know the full details of what transpired between the mods and Dusty, but I can definitely understand how hurtful and discouraging it can be to have your work removed. I have only ever seen the mod team operate with fairness and integrity. However, this removal seems very surprising as an outsider looking in. I had not read the story in question, so I don't know how valuable my opinion is in this instance. Yet, I feel compelled to offer some suggestions for the mods to consider. As many have stated prior to my comment, a conversation between the author and the mods might have helped to mitigate some of the blowback this incident is generating. I know we are all busy, and we all contribute to EF for fun. Perhaps in the future, initiating a dialogue outside of email may be helpful, such as a group chat, group call, or a video conference to discuss the decision and come up with an arrangement that is mutually satisfactory for all parties. Part of being in a community is facilitating an environment where discussion and open dialogue is encouraged, and inviting participants to take part in the decision making process can help to generate positive interactions.
I don't pretend to know how to host a website, but I would like to implore you all to reconsider (if you can) and have a conversation with Dusty in an environment where things cannot get lost in translation.
I’ll be honest, the loss of civility and entering personally hate messaging and insulting the admin has disturbed me the most today. Regardless of our personal feelings, hate and bullying is not what I knew of this fandom, and hoping it doesn’t continue this way.
Please see the new news item. https://dark-solace.org/elysian/news.php?action=newsstory&nid=193
I am confused, I have no idea why this story violated the Spuffy prominence rule. It doesn't matter that there are other pairings that are featured in a positive light because each chapter contained an important Spuffy scene. Each one had Buffy or Spike constantly thought or talked about the other. It was pretty clear that it is a Spuffy story. A slow-burn Spuffy story.
I think The Fairytale by Dusty is the best ongoing Spuffy story on this website today because despite the name, it is the most REALISTIC canon-compliant to the original series. How amazing would it be to read a story where Spike and Buffy slowly get together after figuring out who they are and what they want? That this revelation didn't come out by bad partners, but those partners just weren't suited for them. Buffy would finally have a clear reason of why she doesn't work with Angel. Not because he is a "villain", but that he has nothing in common with her. The past is all they will have. It would have died out in time. I would have loved to have seen a relationship die out because it simply didn't work. The greatest karma to an overdramatic "Romeo and Juliet" star cross pairing. A realistic breakup. This story truly understood Spuffy to its' core with its' slow burn, identity story, parallelism, and vulnerability.
Needless to say, while I respect that this is the Mods decision, I am disappointed that they couldn't see the clear picture of why this worked. That they didn't give it a chance. The Fairytale really changed the game for Spuffy fanfiction, and I hope that I can find this story and Dusty elsewhere.
My apologies, I didn't see the update.
I must be on another of my Totally Late to the Party - cause this story is still showing on the site. Unless there is another story with same title.
I’m not sure I have anything to say that hasn’t already been said, but I wanted to quickly weigh in regardless because I’ve been thinking about this all day. It’s devastating to hear that some mods have received personal messages of a hateful and vulgar nature. This site wouldn’t the haven that it is without you ladies and your tireless efforts. Truly, I can’t imagine the work, care, and dedication that you all put in daily. More than that, I appreciate the goal of preserving a Spuffy-only space without having to weed out other pairings as we would have to on other sites like AO3.
While I can’t say I agree with the initial decision to delete Dusty’s fic, I haven’t read it myself and so I won’t speak much on that point, aside from echoing a few others’ comments about several slow burn fics with Spike/Other or Buffy/Other still being housed on this site—if these are okay and The Fairytale isn’t, where is the line, and how can writers know when or not they’re crossing it? I think the vagueness of this rule (which a lot of us have never seen publically enforced before on EF) is where a lot of the confusion is coming from.
But even more importantly than that, I’m disappointed in the fact that Dusty wasn’t given adequate warning about this decision and enough time to save the invaluable comments on her story. As a writer myself, I would be unbelievably sad to no longer have access to all that community love. In the future, please consider giving at least a few days, preferably a week or two, so that the author can process and save everything they need to.