Poor Buffy, she is really that dumb to think that perfect happiness is always achieved during sex? Or did she just not pay attention to what the curse actually was? Either way, pretty dumb, but I suppose it's canon compliant.
And gods, Walsh is sick, sick, sick. I almost don't want to know what she comes up with.
No one ever TOLD HER what the curse actually was. I did a rewatch and realized, she actually didn't know. And it was fairly clear in season three that all "those things" except perhaps kisses were off the table.
I am entirely terrified about what Maggie Walsh is planning... because obviously it's blatantly torture. I'm already cringing.
Loved the Spuffy convo! They have feelings! That they're talking about! Weee! Now, if only Buffy could get a happy without it all going bad. My personal feelings on the subject say Buffy won't actually be *that* different without a soul (much more likely she'll be more like Spike than Angelus), but I guess we'll maybe see?)
Walsh is just so evil. So, so evil.
It's so much fun getting the Spuffy taking about feelings!
"She kissed like someone had opened a bottle of champagne."
Really like this line!
"since what he really always wanted was to be wanted"
But of course.
Loved Spike semi-accidentally admitting his feelings.
Yeah, just sort of, what, no, don't listen, I didn't say that, (god, I hope she didn't hear....)
Lol, the scientists don't know what to do with Spike & Buffy being cuddly.
Poor Buffy. I wondered if the Slayer-soul, vampire-mind would butt heads, and it sounds like they are.
"You really all that attached to that soul?" - LOL Spike. Ooh, I look forward to learning about all his naughty byways.
Spike is SO going to show her the scenic route....
Walsh's plan is scary. I hope Spike and Buffy can get out of here as soon as possible.
That hadn’t occurred to him before. He’d asked her if she hated herself, but he hadn’t realized the twistedness of it. Slayers kill vampires. Vampires kill slayers. She was both. That explains a lot of things. Poor Buffy. The soul is really a curse for her, it's a damnation.
At least they knew where they stood. It was apparently on burning coals, but they both knew they were both there. That’s something, isn’t it?
Great chapter! I loved it.
Thanks! And yeah, Buffy is in the worst possible place at this point. It's a real hell for her. Spike is a ray of sunshine in the darkness... trouble is, the sunlight burns.
God Angleman is even more dense than Walsh when it comes to noticing the sentience and emotion in the vampires at least. You do a great job using terminology like many studying animal behavior. Then again scientists have only recently admitted some obvious things about animals too such as more intelligence and understanding than previously credited and an emotional life they denied for ages.
Bet Riley and the others would be horrified if they had a clue that they were experiments as well!
Things didn't go so well before. What are a few lives after all? I wish that attitude only was found in fiction.
Well isn't she ambitious...all the troops eh? Gives a whole new meaning to the phrase, "Not what I signed up for," doesn't it?
So Adam imploded already. Poor mommy. Let's rack up another "son" and give it another go. And she's looking at a resurrection of Adam, not a good idea. I just hope Spike gets the honor of offing her instead of Adam.
Angleman has a bit more compassion (of course Walsh has none at all so that's not saying much). hope there’s nothing human or loyal or... sentient about them at all. And I hope they’ll show you that quickly. Seems pretty clear that Walsh is looking forward to the torture part of the program. Bitch!
Poor tactile, cuddle loving secretly tender Spike. Even William had it hard being a Victorian lad. He was so happy cuddled up to Buffy only to have the joy pulled away. He's reacting to what he THINKS she means and vice-versa. They really are a damaged pair of beings aren't they? The truth was, she’d butted up against a bunch of his own issues. Drusilla. Abandonment. Never being good enough. Yup. They've both got enough abandonment issues for any ten people now.
AHA so you are looking at dealing with the whole "perfect happiness" issue there and how Angel didn't even try to find a way around it! Good. Buffy thinks the perfect happiness was just sex but like Spike knows that's not the case at all. Good point on those couple of years after Angel got his soul while he still ran with the rest...NO WAY he and Darla didn't have sex. I'd bet he'd had sex a time or so after he left too, at least until he entered his rat eating period. Nope it wasn't the sex it was defiling pure innocent Buffy the symbol of all that is "good" and "pure" to demonkind IMHO. Spike already ranted about her having been groomed even if she didn't get the reference at this point.
Glad they are at least fumbling their way to some understanding.
Grew up with an animal behaviorist. Maybe something stuck...
That was one of the things that really drove home the evil of the initiative. They weren't just misguided, they were evil about everything, including their own soldiers. Walsh is a Cartesian, who believes that man and animal and demon are merely machines, and thus can be tinkered with and upgraded without regards to their humanity, or the researcher's own. This theory has been utterly dismissed by all branches of philosophy, yet it is one that keeps surfacing subtly in certain branches of science. A sure fire way of grooming people to be psychopaths, in my mind. Which Walsh undeniably was.
Spike and Buffy have pretty much established, after that initial blow up, that things are going to be pretty hot and heavy between them, or at least that they both want that to be the case... which is enough to be going on with. And yes, Angel is a misleading asshole.
Absolutely agree about Walsh and where she is coming from and how it can only lead to making her a psychopath! It's also a perfect look at the prevailing viewpoint of the originators and backers of the entire project.
Well at least you didn't have to eat the animal behaviorist to have something stick LOL.
Really love all this touches in the story.
I love this story!
"Nesting behavior" and all that: amazing perspective twist.
"forcing his lovers killed the mood": makes sense!
"Slayers kill vampires. Vampires kill slayers. She was both." Oh. :(
Yeah. Poor, poor Buffums. I thought people would get a kick out of "nesting behavior."
Walsh reacted much as I expected. She noticed a difference and wonder if they are different strain of vampires. She's very cold and scientific about what she saw, Angleman actually seemed a bit more humane even if he thought more in terms of animals. There are little moments when they really have to try to see the demons as animals. When Walsh was thinking about spells, I could almost feel how much she didn't want to think about it.
Buffy and Spike are doing some talking around each other. Buffy has only had sex once and that didn't go well and the soul doesn't help her get comfortable with having it again especially not in a place like this. Spike has his own issues of being rejected and keeps pushing. That's probably good since it forces some things out in the open.She's worried about losing the soul, which of course make sense knowing her history. Just having sex with anyone wouldn't have that effect but Buffy doesn't know that and it's probably not a good thing to experiment with.
If she do lose it I hope it's because something else than having sex with Spike. A moment of perfect happiness should be more than that. A great moment would have been when they both are saying they love each other.
Yeah, just sex shouldn't be all that.
Heehee! I love Spike's comment at the end about Buffy's attachment to her soul. Walsh is so deliciously evil, you've done a great job writing her. Well done.
Oh, yeah. "You really want that soul, Slayer? You sure? Sure you're sure?" He's gonna be asking that a lot, really....
Being imprisoned and experimented on is such a great way to bond! I really love two things in particular: Spike mocking Walsh to his cigarettes; and how deeply affecting it is for Slayer when she drinks from him.
I love both of those things myself! Buffy needed someone she could drink from, really, the whole thing with Angel messes her up.
Can your vamps sense each other? If so, here's hoping Angel is on his way!! No hurty experiments
I don't know what you mean by "sense each other." My understanding of the sire sensing thing in canon is it really only works in close proximity, and only a very vague sense of existence, so there wouldn't be a "Buffy's in trouble!" sort of Lassie response anyway. I usually stick pretty close to canon, if I can.
Uumm... all right... Willow's powers have somehow advanced real quick and she is going all mind meldy with them. Scoobies to the rescue! Or, they've taken Oz? That'd work!
Come on, I'm clutching those straws. As much as I enjoy hurt/comfort and bonding I hate Initiative experiments. Maggie and Co. make me squirm.
They're really squirmworthy, so I don't blame you.
Emotional roller coaster, and I have a feeling that Walsh is NOT going to play fair. I also noticed that Buffy thinks it's sex and not "pure happiness " and that's probably gonna cause a big problem later. Love it.
Yeah, she thinks it's sex, because Angel sort of let her think that (if you hadn't noticed, that was pretty much what they seemed to think through all of season 3.)
For all her 'research', Maggie hasn't got a clue what vampires are and what makes them tick.
Oh boy, is their loyalty going to be tested now. And poor Buffy is so conflicted... and so is Spike.
It's all about to get even complicateder....
Yeah, Maggie's totally clueless. She really SHOULD have talked to the watcher's council! Well, no... no, she shouldn't, because if she had the vaguest clue what was going on, she'd be even MORE dangerous.
I love that word! Complicateder.
The thought of what Walsh has planned for Buffy and Spike is slightly terrifying. Her idea of torture can't be of the G rated variety. I hope Spike and Buffy can protect each other.
So...does Buffy think having sex with Spike will make her happy enough to lose her soul? Or is it that she just thinks sex in general makes the soul leave? Buffy is definitely having a conflicted time...
Spike is going to have fun teasing her about that I imagine.
Looking forward to the next chapter. Thanks for the update!
She thinks it's sex, mainly because that's pretty much what was understood during season three and the early seasons of Angel. Angel let her believe that... because he doesn't really want her having sex with anyone else, either. (Because he's ANGEL.)