Comments For Gunga Din
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GillO commented on Gunga Din on October 25, 2021 06:44pm Liked

Painful and touching. Dawn's misery and the only way he can find to handle making it worse, but knowing that too. Hot but miserable sex.

I feel so sorry for him, clinging on to his badness for the sake of his girls.

Author's Response on October 29, 2021 04:34pm

He’s trying so hard, and it’s breaking him down in his core. But he’ll do what they need of him... even if he’s not sure what that really is, he’s going to try! 

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Abhimary00 commented on Gunga Din on October 06, 2020 02:23pm

Aah, I get the sense that we're moving closer towards the AR. And I dunno whether to be glad that it could be explained away so innocently or to be apprehensive of that. All I can think of is that it's an unfortunate writing choice and something extremely out of character for Spuffy and for Spike. 

But love your version of events, though

Author's Response on October 07, 2020 08:00pm

Seeing Red is a great big argument for having safewords in play, and that will always be my stance. They played dominance and consent games without a net (a safeword) and when they fell off the tightrope, of course they got hurt. I don't actually find it OOC. They set it up so well. 

Abhimary00 Replied on October 13, 2020 12:14pm

I see your stance. But Spike's intent to force himself on her was so clear and so set that it didn't feel like their usual games at all. And in a bathroom. Cornering her in a bathroom, when he knew  she was already injured, for sex, didn't really have any tone other than an out of control AR. He knew she as hurt, heard her begging, heard her cries, but proceeded anyway...it's unsettling. I don't thnk Spike would ever do that.
:( I'm just ...still grieving over such a low character moment.

But yeah, a game gone wrong would make sense, I guess.

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Abhimary00 commented on Gunga Din on October 06, 2020 01:27pm Liked

Aah, I get the sense that we're moving closer towards the AR. And I dunno whether to be glad that it could be explained away so innocently or to be apprehensive of that. All I can think of is that it's an unfortunate writing choice and something extremely out of character for Spuffy and for Spike.

Author's Response on October 07, 2020 07:58pm

Glitch! 

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sarahinexile commented on Gunga Din on June 09, 2018 12:47am Liked

I mentioned on Facebook that I have a tendency to revisit this little fic often. No idea why I like to hurt for Spike so much, but this is so exquisitely painful. The last line just does me in.

Author's Response on June 10, 2018 03:42am

Oh, that's so cool! I'm very glad it means something to you. I was very harsh to Spike in it, and he was very heartbroken by the end. Maybe it's fun to empathize with a redemption character. I'm so glad you enjoy this one. 

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-Carrie-Ann- commented on Gunga Din on March 25, 2018 09:28pm Liked

Excellent story, I'm left heartbroken for Spike, but then isn't that always the way? X

Author's Response on March 25, 2018 09:44pm

Oh, yeah, this is a harsh one. He really gets his heart handed to him here. Thanks.

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Toften commented on Gunga Din on February 04, 2017 12:21am Liked

:(

Author's Response on February 04, 2017 02:47am

hug

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pfeifferpack commented on Gunga Din on November 10, 2016 06:14pm Liked

All through this episode I waited for her to apologize to him for the beat down.  I wound up hating the episode because it never happened.  Poor Spike so willing to take ANYTHING she offered even pure abuse.

not some bloody sea-monkey picked from the back page of one of Xander’s comic books.  LOL  I remember those.  A neighbor even ordered it.  Vast disappointment.  Instead of little trident holding fish-men they were brine shrimp!

Spike did not feel at all emotionally threatened by Xander of all people, but Anya had reason to worry  Yes that was a big part of Xander's problem.  I always thought the only reason he was mostly okay with Riley was because he projected himself on Riley (back to his "military" days LOL).  It was having her vicariously at that point I think. Poor Anya was another character undervalued by the group on every level.

it wasn’t the same. Spike wasn’t trying to get into Dawn’s pants. Exactly!

 All whatever meant wanting to slash her arms and scream and scream and scream and threaten to throw herself off the tower after Buffy. Because she’d gotten all whatever a few times that summer while Buffy was dead. Of course, so had Spike. And whenever Dawn got all whatever, he’d be there for her. And whenever he got all whatever he tried like hell to keep it quiet, because it wasn’t fair to put that on a kid, This is exactly how I imagine that summer went. Poor Spike had no one to be his cushion though, no one to validate his grief.

Poor Spike's dilemma!  He is face to face with having been a bad influence unintentionally.  LOVE the dialogue about stealing and Spike being bad.  Interesting that he knows full well that stealing IS bad and it matters to him that Dawn not follow his example.  He clearly has a conscience and is finally letting it speak in his life.

bloody hell! – he was corrupting the very air she breathed with the cigarettes he’d been smoking for the last half hour. He quickly squashed the thing out on his boot and threw it out the window, flapping at the smoke, trying to remove his influence from her presence.  Awww he really is changing so very much.  Love is his soul and he loves Buffy and Dawn enough that he seems to be having the benefits of one (less the oppressive guilt that getting one now would bring) without it.

“I’m the one who gets to be bad. I’m the one who gets to die. I’m the one who gets to spend the rest of his life in hunger and pain, unable to see the sun, unlovable, unwanted, cut off from the world. I’m the one who gets that. You get to stay home with your stuffed animals and your family and your friends who love you, and you get that by staying good. You get that?” This is just heartbreaking.  On one hand I certainly get what he's trying to say but what he actually reveals if far more interesting.  This is a desperately unhappy man who is hurt beyond the telling and he wants better for her because he loves her dearly.

But Romeo was a ponce who didn’t know what the hell love was, and Juliet was a child who wasn’t even fourteen yet.  Oh GOD Angel and Buffy WERE Romeo and Juliet!  Too funny his musings over the characters in the play. Some shadowings there too.

The whole concept of “her mouth says no, but her eyes say yes” was absurd, but “her mouth says no while her hands are grabbing out my cock and planting it inside her” was really confusing. And there is the paving stones that led to Seeing Red.  No I don't "blame" the victim but I don't see it as attempted rape.  It was horrible, tragic, miscomunication that had gone on for far longer than that one incident and became tragic only because for once she meant it and he didn't know.

Worshiping her got him nowhere. Standing beneath her while she gazed down at him from her righteousness hadn’t been what put her in his arms. Like Drusilla, like Angel, she’d needed strength and violence and determination, she’d needed him to take her.  More miscommunication, more wrong conclusions.

 And it hurt Spike’s heart that Buffy was worse than Angelus. Spike couldn’t let his guard down for a minute, or he lost her, every time. He had to stay hard, stay focused, stay on point, or she slipped away.  That's because she cannot stand to think he HAS a soft side, has emotions that are real.  She really chipped away at this poor man.

was worth anything, anything, anything so long as he could still touch her. So heartbreaking yet so unhealthy.  He literally gave her everything he thought she wanted with both hands , tore out his heart to hand to her.  She couldn't appreciate it.  I doubt she ever fully did.  I think that's why part of me gets enjoyment of her loving him and telling him before a soul because by God he deserved it!  Yeah he f'ed up but she could have led him to how to love properly and he would have been her willing student.

He would have a Buffy mark, as if she’d killed him, as if he were her victim. In many ways he was.  She didn't sup on his blood but on his emotions and it was killing him.

“See what?” Buffy demanded. “It’s not like this is real.”  Oh God the verbal stakes she used on him!  THOSE hurt, the blows he could take but those verbal ones ... not so much.  He had far too many of those over the century and even before.  Of course it's real you dumb, vicious, bitch!  But you know why this is sordid, is ‘cause you make it sordid.  Indeed.

Why was it that he inspired only the ranting and the cold shoulder, when he could see, and feel, and just know what he did to her? He knew she loved him, he knew it! ...  But she didn’t want to.  And that hurts so much worse than if she just didn't.  To have someone not WANT to love you is a rejection so deep it destroys.  It's like the difference between guilt (a normal and proper feeling when needed) and shame (destructive and never right, it defines you not your actions).

not one line of the stupid thing even mattered. ...  Spike wasn’t even a man. Yes Spike you are. And you are much like Gunga Din in being unappreciated, looked down upon and having your wonderful points unnoticed while so many others are extolled for almost nothing.

Bittersweet and lovely.  This really picks up on the emotions of this part of S6 and of the devastation already taking place and an omen to the horror to come.  Through it all, both the current and future, Spike takes all the blame and she lets him.

Stellar.  Don't know how I missed this one.

Kathleen

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Author's Response on November 24, 2016 08:30pm

Well, brine shrimp are fascinating in their way, but... they're really just brine shrimp.

This was the function of the story, of Spike being an influence he didn't intend to be. Like that moment in the bathroom (but to a much lesser and less complicated extent/situation) when he finally realizes his own evil is evil not just for himself, but for everyone around him.

He's actually not wrong about his conclusions with Buffy, she's NOT letting him be kind, and every time he tries, she shuts him down. It's Buffy who's forcing herself (and thus him) down. Which is not to say that Spike couldn't have screwed up this relationship on his own, he had his flaws, but Buffy was basically forcing it into something awful, and it really wasn't fair of her.

I didn't mean this to be quite the story it became. It was supposed to be just Dawn and Spike, and then Buffy literally stuck her head out the window and said, "I want to get laid." And I'm like, "But Buffy, this is a touching, PG rated vision of the relationship between Dawn and Spike, and the support and ultimate bad-influence he had had on her, and how bad he feels about that, it has almost nothing to do with you," And she's all, "I'on'tcare. I wanna get laid." And then I had to try and finagle in this second plot line, and braid it through the first one, and write smut, and it was all very rude of season six Buffy to insist on throwing sex in... Which seems fitting for the character, really!

I think you were sick that week, or your computer went down or something. In any case, I'm thrilled you got back to it! *loves, loves, LOVES beautiful Kathleen reviews.*

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thenewbuzwuzz commented on Gunga Din on July 04, 2016 09:18am Liked

I love this, especially Spike and Dawn's conversation.

Author's Response on July 04, 2016 02:15pm

Yeah, that's all this story was supposed to be. Then Buffy showed up, and wanted to get laid, and I was like, "Buffy, you're not even supposed to be IN this story," and she was all, "Don't care. Wanna get laid." And... Ah well. Story did what it wanted, I guess. Thanks!

thenewbuzwuzz Replied on July 04, 2016 11:07pm

:D

...it would have been easier for poor confused Spike if she'd up and said it to him, too. :D (But she didn't need or want to say it, of course.)

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ScarlettDuck commented on Gunga Din on June 08, 2016 08:02pm Liked

Oh, my god.  This is amazing. Heart-wrenching, but so amazing. What a character analysis -- no, actually it's a flaying-open of these characters at this point in their arcs. Glorious.

Author's Response on June 08, 2016 05:47pm

Yeah, it was supposed to just be Dawn, and then Buffy wanted to get laid, and then Spike was just torn open between them, and... yeah. This was a tough story.

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gello5440 commented on Gunga Din on June 01, 2016 03:46am Liked

Just wow. Spike revealed. Your writing is powerful. And wonderful.

Author's Response on June 01, 2016 01:21am

Yep. Spike revealed, and Buffy pushed him away again... Poor Spike. (And... yep. That's season six!)

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hcconn commented on Gunga Din on May 15, 2016 11:14pm

 This one left me even sadder than most of your other season 6 stuff :(

Author's Response on May 15, 2016 08:18pm

Oh! Misery! I'm sorry. Still, at least it had an impact.

hcconn Replied on May 16, 2016 07:29am

Oh, yes, I love stuff that inspires emotion. And you capture misery so well.

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Lanea21 commented on Gunga Din on May 14, 2016 12:10pm

Ah-mazing. Even though I love Spike's perspective on Buffy (worse than Angelus, slay me now) his perspective on his relationship with Dawn is stunningly powerful as well as heartbreaking. 

Author's Response on May 14, 2016 03:25pm

Well, worse than Angelus as far as HE is concerned. But his relationship with Buffy isn't in a vacuum. Dawn is linked up in it... and it's all getting ugly. (And he doesn't want it that way...) Thanks for reading!

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Texdoc commented on Gunga Din on May 13, 2016 09:00pm

This story is very consistent with the spirit of season six which makes it sad. The writers savaged the characters in season six which is why this is a hard read. Buffy became a female domestic abuser which is glossed over by her depression at being back. Spike is still so much William wanting to be loved. Buffy's callous behavior and her emotional immaturity leaves her a very unattractive character. They really botched girl empowerment with Buffy's abject failure with relationships including the inexplicable blind spot she had for Angel. Emotional strength is a component of the whole package. Goodness knows Buffy was surrounded by a lot of dysfunction. 

Sorry-season six is the reason for fan fiction. 

Author's Response on May 13, 2016 06:11pm

It is, but that's why I like filling in all the gaps. (And lots of season seven. Gaps. Gaps needing filling.) I like to explore the corners, even the dark corners. Thanks for reading!

Texdoc Replied on February 24, 2018 11:58pm

I just reread my review, and I thought I should say that I sounded particularly harsh about Buffy. The thing that makes these characters so compelling is how complicated they are. I think you’ve challenged me to step back and consider her from a different perspective. 

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onar commented on Gunga Din on May 13, 2016 08:32pm Liked

Damn. This story almost had me crying. I found the part where Buffy said "I keep forgetting you read" to be both infuriating and heart breaking. I can only imagine how offended I would be and even if Spike is the one who has manufactured the image of the Big Bag Vampire, is sad to read how Buffy almost couldn't even see him back then. Loved the part with Dawn though, I wish the show had given their friendship more of a focus there at the end. Anyway, great piece! Can't wait for more! 

Onar!  

Author's Response on May 13, 2016 05:50pm

Yeah, Dawn's bit was the actual point of this story. And then Buffy showed up and wanted to get laid, and I was like, "Really Buffy? I can't just focus on Dawn and--" "No! I wanna get laid!" "That's going to make things really difficult and complicated and make this really grim Buffy." "Don't care. Want pretty vampire." And eventually I just thew up my hands and let her add her half of the story, and of course she was mean to Spike, like he needed that, and... ah well. Spike was the one who put in Gunga Din. Because he's such a poet.

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DarkHeart commented on Gunga Din on May 13, 2016 06:49pm Liked

Not a happy read, but a brilliant exploration of how messed up they were, without seeming forced or having too much exposition.   Really emotional and thought-provoking.

Author's Response on May 13, 2016 04:31pm

Buffy makes Spike think. Spike makes Dawn think. They all make us think... it's a very complex relationship.

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djellibabe commented on Gunga Din on May 13, 2016 04:50pm Liked

 Another perfect example of your excellent writing! 

Author's Response on May 13, 2016 04:31pm

Why thank you!

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magnus374 commented on Gunga Din on May 13, 2016 04:43pm

I don't understand Dawn here, is she an idiot? It's like she has spent her entire life with Spike as the only creature around her. Spike himself knows that stealing is wrong, but Dawn has problem with it! 

Of course Spike blames himself and is starting to think that a soul would make a difference, when it apparently doesn't do anything for Dawn, but maybe she doesn't have one? It's so sad to see his thoughts and realise that this will make him think about mutilating himself, the great future that could have been will be destroyedsad2

Author's Response on May 13, 2016 04:30pm

I don't think he really thinks the soul stops you from doing bad things. He must already know better than that. He just sees the corruption is all.

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nojiri23 commented on Gunga Din on May 13, 2016 01:02pm Liked

 So real, and sweet, and tragic. heart

Author's Response on May 13, 2016 04:31pm

Thank you!

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All4Spike commented on Gunga Din on May 13, 2016 11:10am Liked

Perfect characterisation for this period in S6.

Love that Spike gets it that he's been a bad influence on Dawn and tries (rather ineffectually until right at the end) that she shouldn't follow his example.

And of course Buffy had to stick her head out of the window. Once she sensed Spike, she was unable to ignore him. And of course, then Spike was unable to ignore Buffy. Both stuck in that inevitable cycle of want and need and despair and discontentment...

Bloody brilliant.

Author's Response on May 13, 2016 04:34pm

Yeah, once Buffy put her oar in, it was all over. He couldn't possibly just walk away at that point. Circles within circles within circles.

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valerie21601 commented on Gunga Din on May 13, 2016 04:18am Liked

hearts

 

squee

Author's Response on May 13, 2016 01:27am

hug

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EllieRose101 commented on Gunga Din on May 13, 2016 04:09am Liked

The first half of this, between Dawn and Spike, breaks my heart. As much as I understand it, I don't agree with any of it. With her belief that stealing might be okay; with Spike's belief that he can't be good, and that he has to stay away from Dawn. And I especially don't agree with any of those things Spike listed in his head that he did. Call me naive if you want, but I refuse to believe he did half of them. I can't even contemplate it. I mean, I'm willing to believe he might have targeted children for Drusilla, but only for Drusilla. I've got this theory that Spike didn't even like making other vamps, after what happened with his mom. And the rape thing - I just don't buy it. It's not his style (for want of a better word. The whole topic's awful, of course). Obviously I'm not going to go into the whole later business about what went down between him and Buffy here, because - as much as it's related - I see it as a separate issue. A one off thing that came about because of very specific circumstances. Getting back to my point, though, I don't think Spike would have raped people. He gets off too much on seduction to force himself, and I also buy into the idea that Angel likely forced himself where he wasn't wanted, further putting Spike off the act. 

Just my two cents. 

 

Author's Response on May 13, 2016 01:27am

I actually get into Spike-and-rape quite in depth in my story Pet, and parse it out to within an inch of its life, why he started doing it, what that meant and why he stopped (well before he met Buffy, in fact) but that was 120,000 words of making sense of it, and not really worth getting into it now. In any case, he flat out admitted he'd done it before in at least three shooting scripts, and it's hinted/intimated at in Never Leave Me. No, I don't think it's something he enjoyed for the sake of it, or his own predilections. There was a lot of social pressure on him to be evil. But the line, "Why didn't I do it?" doesn't come about because you've never, ever done such a thing in your life.

As for Spike and not agreeing with his assessment of things... well. He's in his head, and it's his judgement I'm deferring to, not about what's right or wrong, but about how he's feeling. And right now he feels awful.

See, I don't like to think that Spike went and got his soul for one reason and one reason only. I like to think that from the time of Buffy's death -- possibly even before -- he was slowly, steadily, coming to the conclusion that he needed a soul to be who he wanted to be. And this thing with Dawn and with Buffy (who just jammed herself into this fic willy-nilly without consulting me on it first. Wanted to get laid I guess. I had this whole thing with Dawn planned out for months, and she just wants to get into this story at the last minute, and...! Well. Characters. What can you do?) is one of the bales of straw on the dromedary. He goes to get his soul. He has a lot of reasons why, and Seeing Red was just the last straw.

Thanks for reading! I love to hear your thoughts.

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ginar369 commented on Gunga Din on May 13, 2016 03:40am Liked

Yeah Spike you might have taught her a few bad habits. Things she really shouldn't be doing. But you were also there for her in the darkest time of her life. You loved her, cared for her, made her laugh and smile when she needed it the most. Buffy on the other hand? I think Buffy is enjoying being miserable right now. It is a catch-22. She was yanked out of heaven so earth is hell. But she is determined to make her life as difficult as possible so earth never gets any better and she can still be miserable about losing heaven. Sounds exhausting.

Author's Response on May 13, 2016 01:39am

Poor Spike can't see that right now, though. Poor guy. Buffy throwing away happiness over and over with both hands in season six IS exhausting -- it's hard on her, and it's exhausting to watch, but in some ways it's so beautiful that the show went there. Thanks for reading! Great review.

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jhiz commented on Gunga Din on May 13, 2016 01:57am

Harsh... but then, season 6 is pretty much all harsh and nasty so your addition is fitting.

Great use of Kipling's words to mesh with your own.  Thank you for sharing.

Author's Response on May 13, 2016 01:28am

Thank you for reading! Yeah, it was harsh, but... you're right. Season six.

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kasumi commented on Gunga Din on May 13, 2016 01:55am Liked

I think this is amazing. I think it captures everyone really well.

Author's Response on May 13, 2016 01:28am

Thank you very much!

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Convi commented on Gunga Din on May 13, 2016 01:53am Liked

Buffy deserved an Adonis, not some bloody sea-monkey picked from the back page of one of Xander’s comic books.

Oh, this made me giggle!

He would have liked to dance with her in front of everyone, and kiss her soundly with her mouth still full of birthday cake, and curl up beside her on the couch and let her fall asleep on his shoulder

I would have liked for him to be able to this too!

Oh!  Spike arguing with himself while he was going into Dawn's room...the poor guy is so conflicted <3

The way he's trying to look out for Buffy by trying to get through to Dawn and it hitting him how much Dawn looks up to him.  Gah!

And it hurt Spike’s heart that Buffy was worse than Angelus. Spike couldn’t let his guard down for a minute, or he lost her, every time.

And seeing it put like that really is heartbreaking!  

Oh, the way he twists himself to try and be what he thinks she needs!

Beautiful and heartbreaking!  (So...perfect for season 6)

Author's Response on May 13, 2016 01:29am

Yes! He is SO DESPERATE to be what she needs, whatever she needs, even if it's not at his core really all of him.

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beauty commented on Gunga Din on May 13, 2016 01:07am

I really have to hand it to you for such an unflinching look at Spike.  Nobody was good in season 6, and you don't let him off the hook.  Oh, he should have left after seeing Dawn. Of course he could not.  But he had some things straight after seeing Dawn, but being with Buffy muddled him again.

A real heartbreak.

Author's Response on May 13, 2016 01:30am

He was totally muddled, left right and center -- Dawn, Buffy, the Scoobies, the chip... it was all hell for him. Thanks!

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