I don't understand why Giles doesn't believe that Spike can love Buffy. I know that Giles never trusted Spike, even when the vampire had a soul, but another thing is to believe that Spike can't love. The vampire has a soul (the theory of Giles is that the vampires can't love without a soul) and he has shown continually to care for Buffy.[Report This]
excellent chapter - like how you are keeping up Buffy's tension and trust issue regarding Giles - I also like that you have Spike as arbitrator for giving Giles a chance to prove himself this time around. I hope you keep Tara involved I like this character very much.
The Buffy/Giles relationship was one of those things I went into this story expecting to be difficult, but had no idea it would take as much focus as it did. By Lost Pupil, that situation had defined itself as a major arc... And I didn't even see it coming.
More Tara to come!
Good chapter. I'm glad Giles is being more reasonable and that he and Spike are getting along, I always thought they could have bonded if things had been just a bit different. Thanks for the update, much appreciated.
Giles and Spike getting along is a lot harder on Giles than it looks. He's very conflicted about it. We'll get a better look at his thoughts on the matter soon. Thanks for reviewing!
My favorite part was when Buffy told Giles why she didn't trust him anymore. Season 7 to me at least seemed to be fast and confusing. One minute Giles is telling Buffy that she has to be the general and make the hard decisions and the next he is voting her off the island. How in the hell does that work?! Especially since he knew that Faith had no real slaying history behind her. She was a bad guy longer than a good one. What made her qualified to lead those people? Buffy has proven more than once that she is willing to give up her life to save the world if necessary. But Giles and her so called friends questioned her abilities? Ugh.
Giles is either going to have to trust Buffy and therefore Spike or leave. It's that simple. The same for the rest of the gang. Either they are on board or they aren't. But what is happening is too important for fence sitters.
You're dealing with the same baggage Buffy is, the memory of Season 7 influencing the relationships of Season 5. And there's the fact that these relationships (especially the one with Giles) are a mixture of work relationships and personal ones. What I saw happening between Slayer and Watcher in Season 7 was Buffy defining the boundry between the two, particularly with the closing of the door at the end of Lies My Parents Told Me. She needed Giles the Watcher for the mission, but Giles the Father Figure was on the outs. The question is, how does all of that carry into this time, and how do they deal with it? The fact that Giles knows they're travelers actually complicates the relationship dynamic, where one would think it would make it more simple. Lying to him and pretending to be Season 5 Buffy might have been completely different. Thanks for reviewing!
I don't think Buffy can let go of it very easily. That kind of betrayal isn't easy to forgive. No matter that Giles hasn't done it yet. For Buffy in this weird situation she is in Giles has done it. Which means this younger Giles has the potential to do it too. It's going to make her leery of trusting him waiting for the betrayal to happen. And for Giles this can't be easy. There are only two options that have been presented: keep Buffy from dying or keep her dead by killing Willow. I'm sure he would try to stop Spike from killing Willow if the worst happened. Thereby screwing up everything Buffy and Spike tried to fix.
We're building toward the first major shift in the Buffy/Giles dynamic. I think you'll love that chapter, as it addresses some of your concerns. (And I'll love the timing. I'll be getting your commentary on it for my birthday! Yay!) As for the options on the table, there's a bit more nuance to it: Keep Buffy from dying or keep Willow from bringing her back, with Spike taking her out as an option for doing so. Say things go exactly like the did, and Spike give Willow the insurance letter. How does Willow react? Does she heed her dead friend's words? Does she try to remove the emergency backstop (Chipless Spike) from the situation and push forward with the resurrection? Do other characters come into play, or does it become a battle between witch and vamp? (Fair warning, I wrote more than one version of the end game for this story, so the ideas being developed enough for us to have this conversation isn't a hint.)
I can't see Willow listening to Buffy's letter if the worst was to happen. She would think she could do it without any consequences. She had an over-inflated opinion of her powers. I could see Willow trying to take Spike out. She was dead set on bringing Buffy back and she wouldn't let a little thing like Spike stop her. Giles and possibly the coven would be the only ones able to stop her. Willow likes the control her powers give her. Consequences for those actions don't really enter her thinking.
Loved this chapter. Giles will really need to start trusting Buffy's judgement, AND Spike really soon---and permanently! The Scoobies (read Xander), will also need to get on board and work with both Buffy and Spike without question a.s.a.p.! Thanks for the update!
Without question? If only it were so simple! But if it can't be simple, at least it will be fun! Thanks for reviewing!
So now it really begins. Glad Riley's gone and it was a better way for him to go although I do feel a bit sad for him but Giles as a vampire sounds funny I'm glad he had the chance to turn things around can't wait for the Scooby meeting.
Yup, we're finally getting past the preliminaries. It's going to start getting a little more fun. I mean, yea, we're starting to head into the meat of the story, but we're also going to (with the big, hulking, cardboard boyfriend out of the picture) have a lot more freedom for some Spuffy stuff. And then there's the Scoobies. And Glory. And Joyce's illness. And the entire time travel scenario. It's never going to be simple, but at least (I hope) it will be entertaining.
I wanted Riley's exit to be quiet and simple. Buffy's had time to reflect on that relationship, and I wanted her feelings to come across clearly: She cared for him, and didn't view him as a bad guy, but she didn't care for him enough to let his attachment to her impact the direction of his life. ...Which brings to mind someone else, someone she obviously *does* care enough about to change his life's path if it means keeping him with her. Like, maybe the guy she dragged along on a time travel expedition. :P
Oh, Glory comes near! I wonder how Buffy and Spike will explain the fact they know so much about her! Another visit from the council may be on the cards too...
Loving this fic, keep up the good work!
I keep typing out responses to this review, and immediately deleting them. Everything I say gives away too much of chapter seven. I guess we'll talk about this after. THanks for reviewing!
Oh, That was an entertaining chipectomy! Loved it!
Giles is beginning to regain my rspect.
The surgery was a scene I originally wrote because I thought it would be fun. But, like so much else in this story, it built up threads to other things even I didn't see coming until I got further along. I hope you like where this is going! Thanks for reviewing!
This story is fantastic! I particularly loved this chapter - the flow was so great. I never thought of Buffy's second death as suicide. When she says that it made me pause but I can see how she might see it that way. I am glad Spike corrects her though because he's right. Thanks for the update. Can't wait for the next chapter.
She does see it that way, and it's likely he's known that for a long time. "Every slayer has a death wish. Even you." Of course Spike is right, the situation on Glory's tower called for sacrifice, and that's what she gave it. But the fact that she'd been wanting it (and he called her out on it, all the way back in Fool For Love) twists the story of The Gift a little in her head, makes her see it as less of a clear line between the two terms. But that doesn't make her wrong, either. If you're bordering on suicidal for months (at least), and suddenly find yourself in a position where your death is the most obvious (not necessarily only) way to save someone else, what does that make you? A suicide statistic or a hero? How much of which motivation matters most? It's blurry. Thanks for reviewing!
Oh my God, I love this story. Great premise, great characterisations, but most of all I love the way you show Spike and Buffy's genuine love and concern for one another, from the easy conversations, to the staunch defence of one another's actions, to the curling up together in their basement retreat. Gorgeous!
Oh, so you like their conversations? You're going to love the next evolution of them. Chapter 7 is where it starts to get fun. Thanks for reviewing!
I'm surpriced that Buffy has given up on saving Joyce. Shouldn't she try to change something? Just a different date for the operation could change everything. Maybe she will try something later. The way they got the chip out was wonderfull to read. The talk between Spike and Giles was great. Maybe they can become friends?
She hasn't given up, but she's trying to make herself accept it. You've actually hit on a point she herself considered, though she doesn't mention it right away. As this story is being told mostly in conversations, and not showing you every single step of every process, there are times when you find out the characters have been doing things behind your back, planning, and plotting and possibly scheming. :P I didn't want to feel methodical with this story, and showing you every bit of planning and every step of the execution of those plans would have been exactly that: tedious and methodical. Not to mention it would have buried the other plot lines under a pile of stuff we already know... all for the sake of making myself look like Clever Queen Fix It, who rewrote season five whe she had a perfect opportunity to tell a different story within the season five framework. You'd probably have stopped reading THAT story by now. Actually, I think *I* would have. Thanks for the review!
Here comes Glory 😝 more please :) love love love xxx
In restrospect, I wish Echoes had more Glory scenes than it ended up with. She's ridiculously fun. Clare Kramer brought so much to what could have been a really annoying Big Bad. But I made a point of dropping scenes (both from my own writing and from the canon framework within which I'm working) I didn't feel added anything to the overall story, and a lot of Glory scenes (and ideas for Glory scenes) ended up on the proverbial cutting room floor. I'm glad you're enjoying it so far. Thanks for reviewing!
Please rest up your wrist well! For your sake and (selfishly) for mine and what'll happen to me I can't get more of this story soon!
Really exciting chapter, love the bit with Giles coming around and chatting with Spike, and really eager to hear what they're going to tell the Scoobies and the Glory plan!
I have a physically demanding job, and messed up muscles and tendons frequently result from it. The strained wrist has been a recurring injury for a few years. Fortunately, all that's really left to work on with Echoes is some brutal editing of the 'for god's sake, myra, babbling much?' variety in the final chapters. More deleting than typing. Posting is simply a matter of 'copy, paste, tweak formatting, and write chapter notes,' as the chapters we're in right now have already been through a half dozen 'final edits' each. (And somehow, there are still typos and punctuation errors. Embarrassing, I know.) I doubt any work injury is going to delay posting. My goofy work *schedule* is why I haven't locked myself into a firm 48 hour posting routine, though that's roughly what I'm going for.
Thanks for reviewing. I'm glad you're enjoying it! We're coming up on the beginning of one of my favorite recurring themes in this story, the point at which I started really having fun with writing it. I hope you enjoy it as much as I do!
"Contrary to appearances, Giles, William the Bloody has a very forgiving nature. Trust me. I know it better than anyone.”
This is a great insight. I tend to think of Buffy as the forgiving one, with her friends and family at least, but now I'm thinking about it and... It's more that she sweeps things under the rug. I think in a lot of instances the resentment is there, just forcibly forgotten about and smoothed over, which is part of the reason why her relationship with the scoobies implodes on a semi-regular basis, actually. Hmm. But Spike, even when 'evil', bounces back from slights and betrayals, some faster than others but still. Good job!
“Pour yourself another, Watcher. You're still too sober for this li'l chat.”
Such a good character moment, I smiled so hard :D I can just see this so clearly, wonderful.
It's funny, maybe I'm too hardcore of a Spike fan, but I've always seen him as very forgiving toward people he cares about, women in particular. Drusilla's daddy fixation not keeping him from wanting to keep her springs immediately to mind... as does a pretty severe beating he received in an alley near a police station later on. The question with Spike and his women is always 'Where is the line between blind hope and self-destruction?' Given the fact that he went out to get his soul, and flat out stated that he did it for Buffy, he's still teetering on that line. Is he forgiving? Yes. Is he a little stupid about it? Absolutely. Does that stupidity occasionally extend beyond his women? Definitely, especially if that extension also helps him protect his love. He once called a truce with a slayer (primarily) for Drusilla's sake, if you recall.
Also: "She shall look on him with forgiveness, and everybody will forgive and love." (Beneath You) I always thought "she" in that sentence had a double meaning. "She" is Buffy as a person, and his dreams of her acceptance, being forgiven by her. "She" is also Buffy as his conscience, and his dreams of forgiving himself. Forgiveness in general was a major theme of Spike in season 7, giving and receiving, particularly in relationship to Buffy stated clearly in that episode. The soul made him face that -in a way- it always had been. His interactions with Giles in Echoes are a way of exploring what a little hindsight changes in combination with all of that. (Sorry, sorry, I'm probably putting way too much thought into this, and babbling again. Feel free to smack me.)
"Pour yourself another" is a favorite moment of mine, too. In a way, he's giving Giles an 'out.' It's a way of saying, "We don't have to have this conversation, but if you insist on it, I'm going to make sure you know I think it's funny watching you squirm." Classic Spike: A little kindness and a generous dose of evil good humor wrapped up neatly in a concise little
bow smirk . Thanks for reviewing!
I love how you are tapping into old Giles. I hope this time he stays the good Giles and that Xander doesn't become an ass too for that matter. I really want Spike accepted into the crew for real and for Buffy to be trusted to make her own choices.
I suspect you'll be surprised at a few of the twists and turns in the relationships, but it's a fun journey. Thrilled to know you're still on board. Thanks!
Good chapter! I enjoyed Spike & Giles' interaction as well as Spike doctoring Buffy. I have a feeling some of their plans are about to be put into action... Can't wait for more!
I love the Spike and Giles converations, too. There aren't many, but they all carry the same underlying theme, one that becomes less and less subtext until it's so obvious, neither of them really needs to say it. I had fun putting those scenes together. Thanks for reviewing!